For about 8-years I didn’t go to church. Unlike many people I know, I wasn’t mad or hurt. I just didn’t see the point. The things I thought church should be about (community, spiritual growth, learning, etc.) were already happening in my life outside of church, so why should I waste a perfectly good Sunday? When my wife Sara and I moved to Colorado last fall we re-considered this decision. We had met Kathy and Karl who lead this thing called The Refuge. It’s the closest thing we’ve found to a church where we are comfortable. For us, church looks like a community of people who have fun together, challenge one another and are there for each other when someone needs support. For a while we found this outside of church, but now we find it inside one.
What does church look like for you?
All of the people in this video are a part of The Refuge.
Music by MC Till. Buy or download his kick-ass CD here.
Craig and folks from The Refuge…this video is a tragically beautiful representation of churchianity. The beauty is in each of you, the stories you hold, and your courageous resilience – the tragedy is in the harm and grief you/we have all experienced from (former) church experiences.
These videos just get more and more to the point of life as a follower of Jesus – finding creative and helpful ways of infusing and connecting people with hope and perhaps encouraging faith communities toward some serious introspection into new ways of being.
Thanks Craig = you have a gift with this.
Beautiful. really beautiful.
MC Till!!!!
Who’s that?
Oh, I love you guys. ’nuff said.
One of my favorites so far…keep ‘em coming Craig.
Excellent video, especially so because I know that you don’t condemn all church institutions and recognize that many people are blessed and encouraged by them. The kingdom of God needs all kinds of expressions of church.
Keep going Craig & the ‘Recycle’ team – you are an inspiration and a ‘good’ frustration to us all.
YAY Refuge!
So Craig, I have watched a few more of your videos and was wondering if the phrase “kick-ass” below your intro is part of the recycled way of Christ-followers lingo? How do you recycle the Word of God which says “Don’t let any coarse or unholy words come out of your mouth”.
While I am thankful for your desire to creatively be the light to a lost world, I wonder if you don’t sometimes cross the line given to us in Matthew 7:13-14.
Howie,
I’m not sure what’s worth… but for whatever that is and as shallow as it sounds…as a searcher, I gotta tell you that seeing language that I use and hear everyday from everybody in my life but evangelical Christians is really refreshing to hear from someone trying to talk to me about Jesus.
That doesn’t account for what the Bible has to say about it…you may be spot-on from that perspective… but as someone who doesn’t use the Bible as his moral plumb line, hearing coarse language from the mouth of someone talking to me about Jesus just reminds me that he/she knows that neither of us has it all figured out, and that makes me want to hear more.
Cheers,
Justin
Thanks Justin for your honesty. I think Craig knows, and all those who are Christ-followers know, that we who are followers are bondslaves to Christ and we have “plumb lines” placed in our souls at the point we become children of God, that God says will come out of our mouth from our new hearts. While we don’t have all of the answers, there are plenty of answers we do have and using coarse language is very clear for a follower.
I don’t like some who overuses Bible phrases to sound religeous either, but I would not expect nor challenge those not connected to Jesus to follow my lead with our language. A Christfollower who uses coarse language could also be considered a hypocrite. I hope this coarse phrase was a mistake in the text and it can be corrected and that you will not be satisfied in the “searching”, but you will be drawn to the answers that ARE there.
Here I am feverishly searching the whole site for this horrifyingly coarse “kick ass”. Where is it? Must be here somewhere.
How crazy is it that I can’t find the quote “Don’t let any coarse or unholy words come out of your mouth” (google returns no results!) (maybe it’s some english translation not freely available on the web?)
I’m imagining you’re referring to Eph 4:29, which was (in theory, at least) written by the same guy whose language included a lewd suggestion that a certain group with whom he disagreed cut off their own penises.
Howie–is it possible that you’ve been so protected from being the butt of real coarse, abusive, destructive language that you are really convinced that “kick-ass”, in this context, fits this description? Tell me more.
Ben, just below the intro of the video, it is suggested we purchase the music used on the video. The way in which coarse language is used as cute promotion is biblically addressed in scripture as language not to be found on the lips of believers. You found the Ephesians 4:29 admonition and should have found Colossians 3:8 and Psalms 141:3 just for starters if you wanted to follow the “line upon line, precept upon precept” way to read God’s word. I sense you have tipped your hand on your way of misreading scripture. Paul was not using that reference you alluded to as a lewd “fun” word, but was making a biblical point to those listening in context.
You have also stated you’re not a christian and you are having more fun than those of us trying to walk the righteous path of Matt. 7:13-14. Are you saying you have fun using coarse language and trying to dilute scripture??
Howie,
“Paul was not using that reference you alluded to as a lewd “fun” word, but was making a biblical point to those listening in context.”
So can I just check if I understand you? Are you saying that it was “Biblical” for Paul to wish out loud that his enemies would cut off their own penises, and therefore that’s not “coarse language”, but it *is* “coarse language” for Craig to refer to a cd as kick-ass?
Can you parse for me what you think Craig means when he writes “kick-ass” about a CD? How exactly is it “coarse language”?
Ben, You misstate the context of Paul’s challenge in using his words. Rightly divide the Word! Paul was not “wishing” something out loud. He was challenging the false theology of those who thought circumcising would get you to Heaven. Paul was telling them that the logical conclusion of perverted thinking would be to cut off everything. It wasn’t meant to be coarse for entertainment sake as was used in this video promotion.
I checked out that website you suggested and was wondering how they, the Discernment Mafia, would view the Recycle team’s efforts to recycle your faith in the philosophy they employ. Also, Jesus was “accused” of being a drunkard, but He wasn’t. But the Recycle team is being questioned about the wisdom of using coarse language, that they did use. Two different challenges. But in your sarcasm, you boast of your having a foul mouth when your daughters were little. Not cool if you’re a Christ-follower.
Howie,
To me, coarse language is language that is deliberately unkind, destructive, rude. The kind of language, for instance, that Mark Driscoll uses in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaeAkJO0w8
Are you of the opinion that there is some kind of ultimately true list somewhere of what is or isn’t “coarse language”, true for all places and times? Who should decide what is or isn’t coarse language? Shouldn’t it be context defined? Why or why not? Do you think that it’s a brilliant idea for you to criticize other people for using what in-your-opinion is coarse language, without first finding out if *they* meant it to be coarse?
I’m just saying I’ve had to define it contextually. Here’s an example. I used to have a friend at church named Anthony. He was a medical doctor from Ghana, here in the U.S. for a six month training stint at the UW medical center in Seattle. One day these two ladies were talking in the foyer of the church building after the Sunday service, and one says to the other “Wow–you’re looking really thin.”. Anthony and I were both nearby, and Anthony broke out in this big, loud, highly contagious belly laugh. The two ladies of course were a bit taken aback at his reaction. He had to explain that in Ghana, to call a lady “thin” would be an awful insult, as in his culture, it’s higher body weight which is valued, rather than lower body weight. (which is generally the case around the world–in places where there’s more than enough food, thinness is valued, whereas in places where there’s not enough food, fatness if valued). So what to the ladies was gracious kind uplifting language was to Anthony definitely coarse insulting language.
I bet if you rephrased your comment from something along the lines of “Well, you guys are using coarse language which is Scripturally prohibited for believers” to something along the lines of “My heart/mind/ears find the phrase ‘kick-ass’ to be coarse/offensive–could you please not use it?”, you’d make more headway =)
There–that’s my free advice (always worth at least what you paid for it) for today. =)
This annoying software for RYF comments doesn’t include double line breaks which I inserted, so all my paragraphs run together. Grrrrrr. Let me see–perhaps some HTML tags will help.
(hooray! It worked. but that’s a pain!)
(darn it. now my hyperlink is messed up. poop. my code is perfect. grrrrrrrrrr. shoddy software!)
(hah! sort of made it work. take that shoddy software)
triple crumbacker. I had used p and /p tags, and it looked so elegant, with all the paragraphs nicely separated, in the preview pane. And then when it posted, grrrrrrr, it went back to all garbles/run together. How frustrating.
“triple crumbacker” might just be my new favorite word
Late to the party, as usual. Wow. Very powerful and moving video. As a former professional christian I have known people first hand who shared these stories, and although some of them have continued to go to “the building”, many have left. Almost all of them continue to seek ecclesia in less formal ways. The Refuge rocks.
And Howie (above) makes me want to cuss. But I won’t, because I’m afraid of being a hypocrite. Oh wait…I already AM a hypocrite. Shit.
Thanks for making my morning Randy – you made the point I couldn’t find words for, yet felt so oppressed… yet again.
Donna, Make sure to skip over His Words “Pick up your cross, and follow me” or “If you love me you WILL keep my commandments. If you say you love me and don’t keep my commandments(staying away from coarse language), you are a liar, and the truth is not in you”. Not just hypocrite, but liar!
We wouldn’t want to “feel” guilty about being imperfect, and seek direction from His word on how to avoid cussing or being a liar, would we? I get the impression those of you in the RECYCLING mode are picking and choosing what parts of the Book you want to follow.
Howie, how can I get in touch with you? Now that Jesus isn’t in the flesh anymore because he was murdered by legalistic hypocrits, I would really like to be able to come study under a person who is perfect, without sin, and speaks for God with such authority. John 13:35
Hey, Thanks for the interest. But rather than sitting under ME, why don’t you break free from the Recyclables and open the Book. It claims to give you all you “need to walk in the Narrow Way” (Matthew 7:13-14). And it even wants you to be called a “saint”, “holy priesthood”, “christian”, and a host of other names to help you identify with “righteousness” rather than your seeming enjoyment of “sinner”. And if you crack the Book, you’ll find God put Jesus on the cross to pay for our sins upon repentance, not your notion of legalists having that power. I try NOT to sin, but have an Advocate now, if I fail, who will forgive me and give me the strength to say no to sin. You recyclables seem to think it’s cool to use coarse language, and never use biblical thinking for your answers, except where it seems to give you a license to just be a “garden sinner”. I’d rather try to be an “oak tree” or a “light on a hill” showing the lost how to be set free from wrong “choices” or coarse talk. If you want to keep playing in the dirt of the garden, then I can’t help you.
Yes, thank you Randy.
Randy, Randy, Randy, it sounds like you wear the badge of “hypocrite” as a badge of honor. And is the first thing that comes to your mind, cursing, when a brother calls to admonish, rebuke, correct, or challenge you?? I am beginning to think some of you like the freedom to be in the flesh and are seeking to recycle yourselves into carnal followers. Is this what you all mean by recycling?
Randy, Randy, Randy, it sounds like you wear the badge of “hypocrite” like a badge of honor! And is the first thing that comes to your mind, cursing, when your brother calls to admonish, correct, rebuke, or challenge you?? So “Let this mind(Jesus) be in you” doesn’t interest you. I’m beginning to think you recyclables like the ‘freedom” of being in the flesh, and are seeking to recycle yourselves into carnal followers. Is this what you mean by recycling “YOUR” faith??
cool video, heard that beat and stuck my foot in it!
Forest through the trees, Howie… I’ll pray for you.
Craig, That was beautiful. Hello to all my Refuge buddies and the only adoptive earthly daddy I have/will ever have– yup, the guy with the sex addiction. Mike, you’re an amazing guy, and I’m closer to my Heavenly Father because of all you are and do.
Love Ya!
Thanks Tami for the desire to pray for me. I am having a difficult time dialoging with you “Recyclables”. My point of reference is God’s Word living in me, and my desire to avoid evil, rather than embrace it as “just the way we are”. I was taught to reason with the Word, and you “Recyclables” don’t seem to be comfortable with the “narrow way”. It’s too “oppressive” as Donna says. If seeing the “forest through the trees” gives me a license for praising people with “sex addictions” or using coarse words to make my point,like Randy and Craig, then I think I’ll just hold onto the ONE TREE and carry that around to continue to draw folks to the Way.
Howie,
for all your holding on to the ONE TREE needs (genuine olive wood!): Genuine Holy Land Wooden Cross
Jesus got accused of being a “drunkard and a glutton”, in much the same way that some people here seem to be getting accused of using “coarse language”. And also in the same way, the accusees are having a lot more fun than the accusers.
Hi again, Howie…
I still really struggle with absolute truth vs. a lot of grey that seems to be the bain of my exixtence. Personally, I cuss very little except when I’m mad. I have an autistic son, so boy, does that come back to haunt me… Anyway, A person I love very much, Kathy Escobar, says, “It’s more important to be kind than right.” So you should know that I think I see your struggle because I’m often there myself. I read this awesome series that changed my world, beginning with The Ragamuffin Gospel and Abba’s Child by By Brennan Manning.
Course there’s nothing like actually experiemcing the freedom to be all that God loves and created me to be and in redemptive community to boot!. Hang in there, Howie. The ride gets harrier,but you’ll love it. ;0)
Tami, you have some big challenges with your son and are to be commended for your love and commitment to this gift from God. I have read the Ragamuffin gospel by Brennan and have heard him speak here in Northern California. As I compared what he taught with the scriptures, which we are commanded to do, it became apparent Brennan is a false teacher warned about in the New Testament. I have addressed many of his false statements in a flyer and now can understand why you and others find no need to be more careful about walking in righteousness. I do not fault you for sometimes messing up and cursing, but that does not seem to be the theme here at Recycle. It seems you have fun being carnal, as Benjamin attests to in his comments.
Howie,
Do you have the flyer up online somewhere? I’d love to see it.
I used to really like Brennan Manning a lot when I was still a Christian. Now he still works for me somewhat, but not as much as before.
By the way, you might like this site: http://itodyaso.wordpress.com/
Hey there again, Howie–
Yes, my husband and I love that boy so very much… When we pray with him each night (it’s one of his marvelous “obsessions” that he HAS to pray with me or he can’t sleep), we always, always thank God for letting us be Josh’s mom and dad. We also always thank him for how fearfully and wonderfully he made Josh. There was a time when I prayed night after night to please heal Josh. I begged God to please show Josh how to talk. I even politely asked him to simply help us teach Josh to tie his shoes. I cannot help but think Josh may have gotten the idea that he was irrepairably flawed since he was not healed right away… He may have wondered what made him so bad that he couldn’t talk like everyone else. We had completely forgotten to see the beauty in the tiny strides Josh HAD made because we wanted control of his autism right now.
That was when Josh was 2 or 3. He spoke a sentence finally at about 5. Now he never stops talking! He even sings exuberantly in the shower– He doesn’t even think about the fact that others can hear him, but I love to listen. He also learned to tie his laces finally at age 9– last year. He prefers curly non-tie laces or crocs anyway, so it doesn’t matter nearly as much as I thought it would. Same goes with writing. For years teachers insisted that he would never be able to learn unless he could write– he had meltdown after meltdown over that. We gavr him a computer and now he can REALLY write, and NO meltdowns! Life is so weird.
As for Brennan, no one author or speaker or person has all the answers, but certainly we can glean important stuff from just about anyone and leave the rest if we so choose. The beautiful thing about grace is that it gives us room to choose and own the truth as the scales come off our eyes, from where we stand. Reality doesn’t care whether we believe in it or not– It just is. Thanks a lot Adam and Eve! ;0)
It really is more important to be kind than right…
I am dreadfully “spiritually autistic,” and I need God like crazy… Change is definitely not happening overnight, but my friends tell me it IS happening.
The comment about my earthly dad did hurt me. It was a punch to the gut. How I wish you could know Mike— he’s a totally ordinary guy with extraordinary Godly love and patience, and he’d be the first to tell you he would be horrible at being God, so it’s a good thing Jesus came to save us from our stupid mistakes.
Hope this finds you well, and thanks for being here while I think this stuff through.
Tami,
Way to go parenting an autistic son. I know that’s an enormous challenge, a bit harder even than the already enormous challenge of parenting in general.
I had to tone my language down a bit when our two girls got old enough to talk too.
Ben, I will try to figure out a way to get the flyer to you. Thanks for the interest. Did Brennan help you also in shedding the garments of christianity??
Howie,
Not at all. Brennan helped me stay a Christian. He’s still on my LOPWMIPFMTIMAC. Thanks for trying to get me the flyer =)
Ben,
I had to watch my mouth with our 2 older kids as well, but Josh… Let’s just say he goes for the gusto, no holdin back! ;0) I’m pretty sure if we swacked him over the head every time, he’d probably decide to stop talking altogether again… Oh, the travesty!
Tami- your response to Howie was incredibly kind considering what he said about “praising people with sex addictions”. I know how much Mike means to you and I’m sure it must have been hard not to get defensive after reading what Howie wrote without knowing the whole story. Way to live out “It’s more important to be kind than right”!
Thanks for the encouragement, Craig.
As I said before, reality doesn’t care whether we belirve in it ir not– a comment from a stranger certainly does nothing to my reality meter. ;0_
If I were in Colorado, I would be almost tempted to go check out The Refuge. Wow! I’m dizzied by the honesty and courage–to let their faces be shown. I like to keep my face mostly hidden.
I love the way the video captures the truth that we all hurt others, and we all get hurt by others. Beautiful.
Benjamin, last year I was able to attend the Denver Off The Map event hosted by the Refuge (unfortunately I couldn’t make it to the Seattle one).
It was wonderful to meet the Refuge people and it only increases my respect for them seeing this video and learning a little more backstory about some of them.
I think you’d enjoy them if you ever have a chance to meet them. Maybe you will at this years Off The Map event if some of them can make it.
Hurray–the otm live conference is in November!! I can probably go.
You know I’m there! Sara’s coming out this year too! She’s eager to meet you, Benjamin. You’ve made a few positive comments to her on our blog/facebook page and now I think she’s in love with you:->
Benjamin, if you want to mark down the dates, it’s going to be the evening of November 20 and the morning of November 21. Jim is hoping to have a website up with details soon.
Helen,
thank you!
Ben, It really doesn’t matter when seeking truth what you or I think a word means, but that a word actually already has a meaning first. Cultures have equvalant word meanings that will match our coarse terms and words and they are coarse either way. HOWEVER, you make a good point on an approach to get Recycle to reconsider their language in their efforts to reach the lost and wounded. I will take the advice so that I can be both “good AND right”, which I think Tami and all of us should consider for the follower of Christ.
Howie, (or anyone)
How can a word have a meaning for you, or for me, beyond what we think it means? Can word meanings exits outside of/apart from human minds?
Benjamin,
A: I’ve really enjoyed reading your posts, along with the others on here. I’m glad to be a fly on the wall in these dialogues!
B: As to your question about the meaning of a word… there are lots of differing theories on this very topic. Linguists and educational theorists are all over the map with opinions on what parts of language are innate, and what are subjective. The classic Piaget perspective is that language is wholly subjective, grown from nothing and acculturated into the speaker. Contemporary linguist Noam Chomsky, however, forwarded a theory called “Universal Grammer” which suggests that the framework of language is actually INNATE, and that we fill in with specific words and dialects from these built-in beliefs. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar if you’d like to learn more about that). It’s actually reminiscent of the debate on whether sexual orientation is innate or assumed (a debate we certainly don’t need to re-light in this discussion)… it’s nearly impossible to say for sure, but a lot of scientists and theorists have spent a lot of time arguing it!
Cheers,
Justin
Justin,
It’s fascinating stuff–thank you for linking. Are you a linguist? Is Noam claiming that certain … *words* have innate meaning apart from our understaning of them, or rather that humans tend to put words *together* in certain ways which he says are hard wired?
I mean it makes sense to me that we have a category of words called “coarse”. But surely what goes into the category must be culturally defined? Noam isn’t saying that categories of words are innate, is he? I’m just thinking, for instance, that here in the United States women’s breasts have become ridiculously sexually objectified, to the extent that in lots of places it’s considered somehow improper for a nursing mother to allow her breast to be exposed while nursing her baby (which is outrageous, in my opinion, but that’s another discussion). In certain parts of Liberia, where I hung out for a few weeks a while back, the women quite nonchalantly went topless in public, and it was normal for them. On the Christian missions ship I used to work on, the guys in the engine room had a vocabulary that was considered normal/not coarse for us. Nobody felt offended by that vocabulary. But I didn’t use it around my mother, because she was offended by some of it. However, my mother had the grace to say not “You’re wrong/sinful/out of God’s will to use that language”, but rather “It hurts me when you use that language, so could you refrain out of love for me.”
Back when my language was a lot more … refined, in the sense that I never would have used “curse words” in just about anyone’s list, I was really using that, at one level, to somehow be “better than” people who did use that kind of language. I really thought of myself as better than in lots of ways back then. Yet in all my “refined” language, I used to say really hurtful, mean, horrible things to people on a much more regular basis than I do now.
I see I’ve started rambling. I should go to bed.
Ben,
I’m not a linguist, just a super-amateur word-fancier. We learned a lot about Noam Chomsky in my college communications courses… love him or hate him, most have to agree that he changed the way we think about linguistics. I think he would say (but your best bet is checking his work) that the ROOTS of language are innate… that our anatomy predetermines certain tones, pitches, intervals, consonances, assonances that naturally categorize into certain camps of communication. For instance, no matter where I might travel in the world, and regardless of the predominant language in the culture I’m in, questions seem to be generally indicated with a rising pitch at the end of a sentence. Likewise, “happy” tones and intervals and “sad” tones and intervals are shared in most cultures… a visitor from aboriginal Australia who had never heard English spoken could easily identify my emotion by vocal tone. In the same way, baby cries the world over which use a “num” or “nyah” sound tend to indicate hunger (the tongue is pressing the soft palate in a way that mimics sucking), whereas cries using a more sterotypic “waaah” sound tend to indicate discomfort or frustration… regardless of which language mom and dad speak. My guess is that Chomsky would suggest that these commonalitites indicate a shared language framework which is intrinsically tied to human anatomy and evolutionary development… and that our variances in language spring out from these common roots.
As for those words which sound “coarse” to our ears… you betcha, that is largely cultural in my experience. For example, the word “fuck” is used far more commonly in Ireland (where my ancestors come from), almost casually among adults and far more often as an adjective modifier (as in “I’m fuckin’ wiped out,” or “she’s fucking gorgeous”)… and while it may ring very coarse to us and be reserved for only beer halls and sailors on shore leave, it can pass even in office chatter or fairly polite conversation in Ireland. On the flip side, to use the expression “bloody” means virtually nothing to us (as in, “my bloody stapler is broken”), short of conjuring thoughts of actual injury… but it is used as a top-tier curse in the UK.
So, coarse language may, as with the rest of our language, share some common anatomical roots… but they are probably pretty far distanced at this point, and my guess would be that 99% of how we determine “coarse” has far more to do with our culture, our history, and our taboos than it does with our intrinsic characteristics.
Cheers,
Justin
WOW, you’re amazing Justin!
I’ve been wounded in church (by people) and I’ve been healed (spiritually) in church by God. I don’t think any church is going to get it all right all the time, after all real live people are in the mix and we all have a great capacity to do harm.
But I was blessed beyond measure the day I walked into my church, somehow I knew instantly I was home. It’s not perfect (nor am I), but we strive to let God do the leading while we concentrate on loving one another. I guess that’s the right choice of words, it’s a real “one another” sort of place. Sounds like Refuge is too.
If you haven’t found a home, don’t give up. I’ve never experienced anything quite like the fellowship in a loving congregation.
Tami, thanks for the testimony of your journey with your son. I am enjoying the friendship of a little autistic girl in our church and it is awesome to watch her grow and to be personally involved in her life, albeit not 24/7 like you. That’s why I think you and I should relate with “99 Balloons Eliot” on You Tube as our focus rather than “Chioces” and it’s unbiblical approach to love and grace.
For a point of clarity, I would not want to offend your relationship with your “earthly father”, and as I think Recycle was inappropriate with their words in the intro of another Recycle video, I still think making light of the “sex addiction” term in describing a follower of Christ bothered me. Perhaps because I, as a man, have, and am daily trusting Christ to keep me from inappropriate sexual thoughts. I don’t think the term belongs in describing followers of Christ. No offense meant to your “dad”.
Hi Howie-
I’m having a hard time tracking with you…how does the title “Mike was a bible-thumper with a sex addiction” make light of his addiction? Are you saying that he should not have called himself a Christ-follower if he had that addiction, or are you saying that putting him alongside other Christians made light of his sin? I was simply trying to show the beauty within this community of Christ-followers, despite their being on the receiving end and giving end of bad church experiences in the past.
Craig, perhaps I thought Tami was making light of Mike’s sin in her comment of him. It came across too flippant to me. I would not want to wear a badge in public that says I’m a sex addict. When I was on Hollywood Blvd Saturday on the alk of Fame, I didn’t holler out that I’m a sex addict. WOW! Would I be in trouble with offers. Instead I was testifying that I once was addicted to sin (pick one) and now have God’s strength to say no. Jesus set me free from that struggle and I would rather be a former sinner/addict. “I once was lost but now I’m found”. The scriptures say “And such WERE some of you”. Our church works on embracing those who struggle openly or behind a mask, but it does not seem to serve a godly purpose to reject the consequences that naturally come with sinning.
Would you have Mike babysit your daughter, and introduce Mike to her as a sex addict?? I would hope not. I think it’s OK in the video, but with a purpose to show how Christ can get you out of that sin and is setting us free from those evil sins. Many churches are bombing in this area, but you folks at Recycle seem to have let the pendulum swing too far the other way in your messages. Just my observation.
Hey, thanks for your response, Howie. That makes more sense now. I guess it’s a classic case me hearing you through a filter of assumptions. Thanks for clearing that up. I think it’s tricky to create an atmosphere in church where people like Mike feel welcomed and loved while also not communicating that their behaviors are endorsed. It’s hard enough on an individual level, I can’t imagine the pressures of doing that on a larger scale in a church!
You’re welcome, Howie!
And thanks for the apology… sex addiction is what it is, separate from the man. Follower of Christ, well that’s who he really is.
Have an awesome day, Howie!
Tami
Tami,
No one need apologize for being a recovering sex addict, in my not so humble opinion. Some of the great Christian heroes have been recovering sex addicts.
Hey Benjamin–
nah, the apology came from Howie about the offense to my dad. ;0)