Comments on: White Church, Black Church http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/ travel to new places in your spiritual thought life Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:39:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Rob http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1458 Rob Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:04:58 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-1458 I'm really blessed to be a part of an international congregation in Germany. We have over 40 nations represented and every Sunday is like a taste of heaven. But it was not always that way. It was quite a shift from being an "American" church with international guests, to being a church that truly reflected our diversity. The only way it happens is through intentional effort. I never really exprerienced this in the U.S. but more and more opportunities are arising for various cultures to come and worship together and be in community with each other. A friend of mine in Houston just wrote a book about his church's transformation from an all white church to a multi-racial church. If you are interested in this topic, you should check it out: "The Color of Church" by Dr. Rodney Woo. I’m really blessed to be a part of an international congregation in Germany. We have over 40 nations represented and every Sunday is like a taste of heaven. But it was not always that way. It was quite a shift from being an “American” church with international guests, to being a church that truly reflected our diversity. The only way it happens is through intentional effort.

I never really exprerienced this in the U.S. but more and more opportunities are arising for various cultures to come and worship together and be in community with each other. A friend of mine in Houston just wrote a book about his church’s transformation from an all white church to a multi-racial church. If you are interested in this topic, you should check it out: “The Color of Church” by Dr. Rodney Woo.

]]> By: Dave Rowe http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-777 Dave Rowe Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:54:48 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-777 Great work here, Craig--very provocative, and artfully done! Thanks for including me in the blessing of being part of this project. "...in humility count others better than yourselves" (Phil. 2:3) seems like the driving attitude behind what it would look like to have a truly multi-cultural church that gets sustained. It has a lot to do with giving up power so we can show we serve a Lord who washes feet. And at the heart of this self-emptying love is the issue of trust. The racial rift in American society has left us with a crisis of trust--especially when it comes to whether Black brothers and sisters can trust their White siblings in Christ. This is why some of the best, most notable experiments in truly integrated churches did not get sustained: I'm thinking of the famed Circle Church in Chicago from the 1970s, for example, which became a failed experiment in the Black-White leadership "sharing the platform." Pastor Davis is right that we are making progress but have a long way to go. BTW I was at Calvary Baptist to celebrate Obama's Inauguration Day with prayer and joy! What an event! But it was sad to not see more of my White evangelical friends in the crowd. Great work here, Craig–very provocative, and artfully done! Thanks for including me in the blessing of being part of this project.
“…in humility count others better than yourselves” (Phil. 2:3) seems like the driving attitude behind what it would look like to have a truly multi-cultural church that gets sustained. It has a lot to do with giving up power so we can show we serve a Lord who washes feet. And at the heart of this self-emptying love is the issue of trust. The racial rift in American society has left us with a crisis of trust–especially when it comes to whether Black brothers and sisters can trust their White siblings in Christ. This is why some of the best, most notable experiments in truly integrated churches did not get sustained: I’m thinking of the famed Circle Church in Chicago from the 1970s, for example, which became a failed experiment in the Black-White leadership “sharing the platform.” Pastor Davis is right that we are making progress but have a long way to go. BTW I was at Calvary Baptist to celebrate Obama’s Inauguration Day with prayer and joy! What an event! But it was sad to not see more of my White evangelical friends in the crowd.

]]> By: Craig http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-775 Craig Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:26:11 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-775 funny, the words that drive me nuts about my sentence "effective models that might naturally be inclusive toward various cultures" are "effective" and "model". Natural feels better to me than a model, but maybe in times like these when natural tendencies are actually contributing to the problem a model might be required? ps-I've come to ask questions like this because of YOU! So, you're just getting a taste of your own medicine! funny, the words that drive me nuts about my sentence “effective models that might naturally be inclusive toward various cultures” are “effective” and “model”. Natural feels better to me than a model, but maybe in times like these when natural tendencies are actually contributing to the problem a model might be required?

ps-I’ve come to ask questions like this because of YOU! So, you’re just getting a taste of your own medicine!

]]> By: Benjamin Ady http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-774 Benjamin Ady Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:40:38 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-774 Craig, What might an effective model look like? Ah--an effective model which is naturally inclusive of various cultures? Where do you come up with these questions? Even Jesus wasn't exactly always super senstivie about race, was he, with his "Why should the dogs eat the children's food" comment. Ask Jim--he'll have a better answer than I do, with his whole brilliant new "maps" paradigm =) I find it much easier to criticize than to brainstorm =). Wow, I can't believe I just said that. I want to change that. I have to think more about this. Effective models that might naturally be inclusive toward various cultures. The problem with this statement is the word "natural". Maybe an effective model must necessarily be unnatural. Craig,

What might an effective model look like?

Ah–an effective model which is naturally inclusive of various cultures?

Where do you come up with these questions? Even Jesus wasn’t exactly always super senstivie about race, was he, with his “Why should the dogs eat the children’s food” comment.

Ask Jim–he’ll have a better answer than I do, with his whole brilliant new “maps” paradigm =) I find it much easier to criticize than to brainstorm =). Wow, I can’t believe I just said that. I want to change that.

I have to think more about this.

Effective models that might naturally be inclusive toward various cultures. The problem with this statement is the word “natural”. Maybe an effective model must necessarily be unnatural.

]]> By: Craig http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-773 Craig Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:13:12 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-773 Benjamin, as I think about how the statement "your way of going is ineffective" might apply to the church I wonder what an "effective" model might look like. It sounds as though you think that a more effective model of church might naturally be inclusive of various cultures? When you think of that, what does that look like for you? I have a hard time thinking about that without coming back to my preconceived ideas of what church is. Benjamin, as I think about how the statement “your way of going is ineffective” might apply to the church I wonder what an “effective” model might look like. It sounds as though you think that a more effective model of church might naturally be inclusive of various cultures? When you think of that, what does that look like for you? I have a hard time thinking about that without coming back to my preconceived ideas of what church is.

]]> By: Tami http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-772 Tami Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:58:36 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-772 OK---- EVERYONE READING THIS: Please watch "A time For Burning. (netflix has it)" It will make this video come evrn more alive, and clarify the real issues for so many people if they would just watch "A Time For Burning" and then this video by Craig together. There is NO WAY I can adequately spill my heart on this subject without writing a book, and that would be so innappropriate here... LOL All I can say succinctly is, "wow, the Church, as a rule, are wusses." Tami OK—-
EVERYONE READING THIS: Please watch “A time For Burning. (netflix has it)” It will make this video come evrn more alive, and clarify the real issues for so many people if they would just watch “A Time For Burning” and then this video by Craig together.
There is NO WAY I can adequately spill my heart on this subject without writing a book, and that would be so innappropriate here… LOL
All I can say succinctly is, “wow, the Church, as a rule, are wusses.”
Tami

]]> By: Benjamin Ady http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-769 Benjamin Ady Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:09:58 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-769 Craig, You always make me think. Can we have unity while staying separate? Of course! And of course not! Hmmmmmm. Once I and several friends were driving for an hour to visit a canopy walk in a rain forest in Takoradi, Ghana. After driving for 90 minutes, 30 minutes longer than the proposed route had called for, we stopped to ask directions from a fellow who was pulled over to the side of the road. He said "Your way of going is ineffective"--a line which I've often remembered since. One wonders if this line could be applied to the entire model of "church" which we consider "normal", and if that could be part of the answer to the "why" of the segregation you address in the video. Craig,

You always make me think. Can we have unity while staying separate? Of course! And of course not! Hmmmmmm.

Once I and several friends were driving for an hour to visit a canopy walk in a rain forest in Takoradi, Ghana. After driving for 90 minutes, 30 minutes longer than the proposed route had called for, we stopped to ask directions from a fellow who was pulled over to the side of the road. He said “Your way of going is ineffective”–a line which I’ve often remembered since. One wonders if this line could be applied to the entire model of “church” which we consider “normal”, and if that could be part of the answer to the “why” of the segregation you address in the video.

]]> By: Melissa http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2009/11/02/white-church-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-768 Melissa Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:06:18 +0000 http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/?p=1080#comment-768 Hmmm, interesting. I'm white but go to a 'black church'. We are a military family and move around every year or two and are forced to find new church homes. When we first moved here we found a 'white' church because it was down the street from our house. Nice people, nice church, didn't do it for me though. I found it too dry I guess for lack of better words. A friend of mine (white woman married to a black man) who also left the 'dry white church' told me about a new place she found. I went one Sunday, and joined the following Sunday. Out of the 300 or so members we are the only all white family. My husband is bald with blue eyes and my teenage son looks like Opie, we are really, really white! LoL! It never bothered me, maybe because I grew up in a all black neighborhood, I don't know. I saw some people really loving Jesus, not bogged down with 'religion' so much instead just worshiping Him, and seeking Him. The nursery workers sealed it for me, they loved my 2 babies (who were missing their dad in Iraq and not wanting to be away from mom 1 & 2 years old at the time) The trust I felt in leaving my babies with these loving women for an hour plus so that I could go worship and praise God, that was it for me. Are there some things I would change if I ran the church? Sure that would happen just about anywhere though. I have been asked a few times by outsiders (mostly black) 'you know that you go to a BLACK church, right??' I always give them a confused look and say, 'Really? I guess they haven't noticed that I'm white yet!' The pastor's wife is sad that we are moving next month and says she prays that God will send them another 'Radical white girl'. They don't want to be known as a 'black church', it's not the way they see themselves or how I see them. They are my family, 100%. I've brought lots of white people to church with me, most of them were not really church goers and have not been back to any church including mine. They all tell me 'your church is really fun and if I went to one that would be it'... I guess that's another discussion though, how to make church relavent to people. I don't think I've added anything new but just wanted to give one 'radical white girl's' take on it. I have no idea what color our next church will be when we move next month... don't really care to be honest. As long as they are a lively bunch honestly seeking, praising and worshiping Jesus I think we will fit in just right. Hmmm, interesting. I’m white but go to a ‘black church’. We are a military family and move around every year or two and are forced to find new church homes. When we first moved here we found a ‘white’ church because it was down the street from our house. Nice people, nice church, didn’t do it for me though. I found it too dry I guess for lack of better words. A friend of mine (white woman married to a black man) who also left the ‘dry white church’ told me about a new place she found. I went one Sunday, and joined the following Sunday. Out of the 300 or so members we are the only all white family. My husband is bald with blue eyes and my teenage son looks like Opie, we are really, really white! LoL! It never bothered me, maybe because I grew up in a all black neighborhood, I don’t know. I saw some people really loving Jesus, not bogged down with ‘religion’ so much instead just worshiping Him, and seeking Him. The nursery workers sealed it for me, they loved my 2 babies (who were missing their dad in Iraq and not wanting to be away from mom 1 & 2 years old at the time) The trust I felt in leaving my babies with these loving women for an hour plus so that I could go worship and praise God, that was it for me. Are there some things I would change if I ran the church? Sure that would happen just about anywhere though. I have been asked a few times by outsiders (mostly black) ‘you know that you go to a BLACK church, right??’ I always give them a confused look and say, ‘Really? I guess they haven’t noticed that I’m white yet!’ The pastor’s wife is sad that we are moving next month and says she prays that God will send them another ‘Radical white girl’. They don’t want to be known as a ‘black church’, it’s not the way they see themselves or how I see them. They are my family, 100%. I’ve brought lots of white people to church with me, most of them were not really church goers and have not been back to any church including mine. They all tell me ‘your church is really fun and if I went to one that would be it’… I guess that’s another discussion though, how to make church relavent to people.

I don’t think I’ve added anything new but just wanted to give one ‘radical white girl’s’ take on it. I have no idea what color our next church will be when we move next month… don’t really care to be honest. As long as they are a lively bunch honestly seeking, praising and worshiping Jesus I think we will fit in just right.

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