Comments on: Missing Half of What God Has to Say

By: Robin

Robin — Thu, 15 Dec 2011 01:32:34 +0000

Rose, thank you SO MUCH for this video. I grew up in fundamentalist (and Mormon) churches where women were to be “seen and not heard.” Women could be teachers or choir directors but the idea of a woman pastor was so ludicrous, it was simply not even addressed. Add to that the 9 years that I spent in a “Christian” theater company, working 80 hour weeks and getting paid $20 a week (what I call “spiritual slavery”), and I was a mess. 6 years ago, I walked away from churches, Christians, Christianity and religion in general, but did not walk away from God. I feel like I actually FOUND God for the first time during that time. In those 6 years, I feel like God helped my find and accept my identity as the strong, powerful woman of God He created me to be, and I had no intention of going back to church. I visited several churches during that time, but never failed to hear the underlying misogynistic message of every pastor I ever heard. About 8 months ago, however, I felt GOD leading me to a church. The first week I was there, the pastor preached about the equality of women (which is one of the only reasons I stayed) and I thought I had finally hit the jackpot. Over time, however, I realized that while he said all the right words, the structure of the church leadership did not back those ideas of equality up. The Lead pastor, worship pastor and executive pastor – in other words, all the people that teach and lead – were men, while the Administrative Assistant, Social life coordinator, and children’s pastor were all women. (Although the children’s pastor WAS I believe actually called a pastor). In the 2 years of the church’s existence, not a single woman has ever preached, even though approximately 15 different men from the church have spoken on Wednesday evenings. I think they tried to make up or cover for this by allowing the women on staff to actually outnumber the men, but the reality is, any and all AUTHORITY is actually held by men and men only. I have pointed these things out many times, but I am shot down every time by both men and women that insist that the lead pastor is very supportive of women. I say he talks a good game, but it actually not practicing what he preaches, he’s just preaching it. Many people have suggested that I go and start my own church, and while I know that I am very capable of teaching and leading, I agree with what Rose says: God created us man AND woman in His image. To me, having to choose between having a male OR female pastor is like asking a child to choose whether they would like a mother OR a father. While I am very interested in teaching and leading, I’m not interested in being a “single mother.” I’m still feeling enormously discouraged overall, but this video helped me to see that even though I FEEL like I’m the only person who really grasps the enormity of inequality in the church, I really actually am not. At least – while I may be the only person in my church that grasps it, at least I’m not the only person in the WORLD that grasps it! Thank you so much!

By: Amy

Amy — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:07:39 +0000

Chrissy,

what do you mean when you say a basic holiness permeates all of God’s creation?

By: eric johnson

eric johnson — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:37:11 +0000

i appreciate rose’s humble way of acknowledging the social place and momentum of the church she spoke at. she took the place of the strong tolerating the weak in order to minister to that church. i don’t think that is walking in any lie.

are we talking here about how women need titles? in thinking about equality and wholeness between the two 50%s, i’d rather see more men lose their titles (and just pastor as a verb) than see more women acquire them (and probably lose some of their effectiveness). jesus didn’t give many titles to his followers.

By: Chrissy Espina

Chrissy Espina — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:16:12 +0000

Holiness can also mean wholeness or health. Since all humans are created in God’s image, and God is holy, we each have a “basic holiness” (wholeness) that God wants to call forth, redeem, and sanctify. However, because of the fallen state of the world and sin we live in, this wholeness has been cut–fragmented and separated–as we are spiritually dead to God until we enter into relationship w/ Him…

this holiness is also reflected in the creation of the world, which was perfect prior to sin entering the picture but now groans and waits in the fallen state, awaiting redemption in hope (Romans 8:18-25)

By: Benjamin Ady

Benjamin Ady — Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:50:48 +0000

Chrissy,

what do you mean when you say a basic holiness permeates all of God’s creation?

By: Chrissy Espina

Chrissy Espina — Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:26:14 +0000

This issue of gender is just one of the many issues that we, as the Body of Christ, must confront. I believe we must critically, humbly, and truthfully examine the way we structure our churches. We must have courage to ask if our church structure is according to the social mores of the current age, which varies and shifts like shadows–or the way of God’s Kingdom, which transcends time and space and culture. We could pick any one issue, including the “biggies” of homosexuality and abortion, and allow division and separation in the Body. This (B)ody fragmentation is most detrimental to that which God intended–unity and wholeness, as reflected in unity in the Body, all founded on love.
The reality is–whether the church chooses to structure herself after it or not–is that a basic holiness permeates all of God’s creation, no matter gender, race, socioeconomic status, or any other (socially constructed) issue that is grounds for division, marginalization, and self-righteousness in the holy Body of Christ. We as humans so often allow our weak worldview founded on fear and control to protect our understanding of God and people that we can miss out on God’s intention and beautiful reality. I mean, how many of us would’ve missed out on Jesus if we lived during His time on earth because we claimed our understanding of the Kingdom was complete? Would I be a Pharisee??
As the church embraces God’s reality, social and spiritual problems such as human trafficking, abuse, and all other forms of dehumanization and exploitation can then be addressed in a way that aligns with the Kingdom that Jesus spoke about—a Kingdom of wholeness patterned after the image of the Holy Triune God.

By: Gloriana Gomez

Gloriana Gomez — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:31 +0000

Hi!
I´d like to give a Latinamerican (Costarican to be exact) point of view about this…
It´s interesting, because yes, there are few female Senior Pastors in our churches.
But, those women who exercise leadership in some area (youth, children, women, etc) are called “pastors”.
Absolutely, I agree that it has been long way for women inside the church to be important in the ministry. In our community women are very respected not only by their husbands or because of their husbands.
I say this as reference and ´cause I live this everyday, I´m not trying to hurt anyone´s sensibility. I just want to let you it can be done and we WILL get to the point where this issue is no longer a problem.
Maybe you can check out our website: http://www.visionjuvenilcr.com (Soon it´ll be in English)
Bless!

By: kathyescobar

kathyescobar — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:52:40 +0000

thanks rose for who you are and how you live out your faith & giftedness in such a beautiful way. i so agree with you and karl, too that the issue for me is learning how to work alongside, men and women together. this model is far too under-cultivated and i believe it is such a stronger reflection of the kingdom values of equality & true community. i also agree that we need to do whatever we can to equip and empower women to step into their giftedness, to have opportunities to practice and learn. this means that anyone with power (be that men or women) be aware of their power and use it to share it with those who need to cultivate their voice and passions. this requires humility & sacrifice on behalf of others, something that isn’t often modeled in a lot of typical church leadership structures. i will be forever thankful for those that gave me a shot at discovering who i am.

By: ryan

ryan — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:36:37 +0000

What I’ve always appreciated about Rose is her strength and steady confidence as a woman who leads. Rose has overcome resistance to her leadership with gentleness and perseverance – not a thin, shallow gentleness that gets batted around easily, but the same kind of strong gentleness I see in Jesus (if that makes sense).

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:09:08 +0000

Great talk. As a “director” in my church (that’s my denomination’s title for me; the people in my church call me Pastor) I am keenly aware of my marginalized place in the evangelical world. I am generally ok with it: if Jesus could come to earth and love and serve without a need for recognition or title, I can too. But when I talk to my Evangelical male counterparts, I am happy to remind them that the Good News as we present it is really only Good News to 1/2 the population. To the other 1/2, it’s just “sort-of Good News.” Come to Jesus and we’ll make you a second-class citizen… Women in our culture are fully-functioning, recognized and contributing members; but not so in the church. You will somehow become “less” if you join most North American Evangelical churches. I think that’s sad. It’s hard to see Christianity as winsome for women outside our faith, looking in.