Todd’s book Giving Church Another Chance suggests we “repractice” aspects of church rather than completely giving up on it.
As you listen to Todd’s story about tithing, does it give you any ideas of what it might look like for you to “repractice” the discipline of tithing?
Updating…
Todd Hunter is an Anglican Bishop, author of the book Giving Church Another Chance, and founder of Churches for the Sake of Others.
Some great stuff in here, but also a potential hazard. I posted a response on my blog http://www.adammosley.com (too long to post here). If you don’t want to hit that up, let me just say that I agree with Todd’s conclusion that God is prompting us to live our lives generously and to examine on a regular basis what that looks like in our lives.
thanks Adam for the link.. i live in the real world, so salty is totally cool with me… got me psyched..
I fear that the church has usually taught tithing as an issue of obedience–perhaps with the underlying purpose of making sure that it continues to exist in its present state.
Then there are the churches that encourage tithing so the tither will get blessed.
Sadly missing is the encouragement that Todd talks about–the Christ-like attitude of generosity.
Personally, I find giving to specific needs in my own community to be a good way of actually being involved in the giving. It’s not tossing $$$ into some money pit that I have no idea about, but a personal response to a need I am aware of.
were folks who didn’t own property meant to tithe, in the old testament?
I’ve stopped tithing to the church-instead I tithe to non-profits who help orphans and widows and to various individuals who are in ministry that I follow. I want to start shifting toward giving in a communal way too. There are people in my community who are out of work and can’t pay rent. The church just pays the mortgage and their professionals for the most part.
Having worked for a non-profit, I can tell you that they are also paying their bills and their employees with your donations, just like your church does. I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t go back to giving to your church. I am just pointing out that every organization has costs which limit the percentage of your donation that is actually used to perform services to the “orphans and widows.”
good thought
I love the message of this video. Whenever I have “what” without “why”, my heart always becomes disconnected from what I’m doing.
That being said, I don’t get the not giving to church thing. I’ve never attended a church that just pays the mortgage and its professionals. If you do, its probably time to find a new church. Even if that was the case, are both of those expenses not being leveraged to impact people’s lives? Also, other non-profits usually pay for their overhead from donations much like the church does.
IMHO
Randy,
It’s true that nonprofits pay their overhead from donations much like the church does. The difference is that most non-profits don’t try to claim that there’s some sort of scriptural admonition and/or imperative for all people involved with them to give 10% of their income to them. Does that make any sense?
Definitely. That’s fair enough. But that’s not the point others were making. At our church we don’t teach tithing as a Scriptural imperative. I think that much like Jesus took parts of the Law and built upon them to target the heart (adultery to lust), the N.T. conversation about giving takes this conversation from tithing to generosity. That’s how we tackle it at our place. I simply don’t think you can make the case from Scripture for never giving to your church.
Again, IMHO.
Randy,
That makes sense to me–that a case cannot be made from Scripture for never giving to your church. Rather I think a case *might* be able to be made from Scripture along the lines of … (oh dear I’m going to get in trouble for saying this) many (perhaps even most) “churches” in the United States (the world’s biggest arms exporter by a gargantuan margin, among other things) not really qualifying as legitimately Jesus-following organizations, from Jesus’ point of view.
Whereas … it also *might* be easier to make the case that Jesus thinks it’s generally a brilliant idea to give to those who are genuinely in actual need, regardless of church/not church, Jesus following/not Jesus following, etc.
I want to gently point out that I used the words “might” and “perhaps” =).
Thoughts?
There are times when I need to be the hands. Yes I pay taxes which help the poor in some ways and I donate to nonprofits and tithe to my church but that is not enough. I need to see the person get the help. I need be in relationship with the person in need. How to balance it all? Maybe just being aware of situations around you and letting the Holy spirit guide me.
Reading all the responses – I still do not have a sense of how you would describe giving out of generosity.
As I wrote that, I was reminded of a question we use in ASG
What is the commitment I am willing to make
Without expectation of recognition
or reward?
what if I view myself only as a conduit for God to distribute his gifts to others, what would shift for me? for you?
My heart towards giving 10% exclusively to my local church (aka storehouse)changed when I learned that my church at the time…as well as the majority of mega type institutions I was able to research, allocate only about 10-15% of the gross collected tithe to charity and congregational care. Every church budget I was able to look at spent at least 80% on infrastucture…salaries, mortgages and utilities.
Conversly…the average non profit, while still christ/kingdom centric in it mission… typically spend less than 10% on admin costs. The rest is poured into people and their focus mission. ALSO…Many non-profits post their financial information directly on their websites as well…
I echo Richard…not tithing to a church has given me the freedom to give to those in my community who are in need…
___Couldnt tithing be seen as a disciplined/obedient sacrifice?
___And couldnt giving to non-profits and other ministries be seen as generosity?
___Why must we seperate the two? Doesnt God/ wouldnt God bless both?
__after working with many types of people, I dont think everyone is capable of that further thought pattern that Randy describes. Which btw Randy is an excellent point: “I think that much like Jesus took parts of the Law and built upon them to target the heart (adultery to lust), the N.T. conversation about giving takes this conversation from tithing to generosity.”
**Some people are simply blessed by their mere ability to literally and obediently follow scripture without having any further revelation. And I dont think we can demean this relationship they are capable of, just as we cant say everyone should have the other kind of relationship.
~just a thought