Do you agree with James’ statement “God was fairly clear and Jesus was silent on the issue”?
Is the topic of war pretty clean cut for you, or do you wrestle with the pros and cons? Where have you landed?
If you disagree with the wars the United States is currently in, do you find it hard to support the troops involved?
Updating…
James Pond is the president of Transitions Global.
So with regards Jesus and silence on the issue–I’m wondering if you, James, and/or others reading, think that Jesus intends his commands from the Sermon on the Mount to be followed and obeyed by the Roman Centurion? Perhaps another way of thinking about that is that while Jesus healed his son, it doesn’t really look to me like the Centurion in that process became a follower of Jesus.
My understanding has been that in the early centuries, soldiers who wanted to become Christians understood that this would involve giving up their profession.
The other side of that is that if you say “God was fairly clear” and by that you mean that in the Old Testament God made it fairly clear that the use of military force was ok, and you are using that as a current Christian in the military to kind of justify to yourself that it’s okay to be both a Christian and a soldier, then you can use the same logic to justify war crimes and crimes against humanity, as in the same vein God was fairly clear in the Old Testament that genocide was okay.
Thoughts?
Craig,
to answer one of your questions: I have a hard time getting my head around what it means to ask the question “Do I support the troops”? My sense is that by living in the west, and earning and spending money in the west, it is inevitable for me to in some sense support the troops. But do I support them emotionally/morally/beliefishly? Nope. I think they are part of a system which uses violence against others to get what we want, and I don’t think that’s the most effective way to get what we want. Have you read Anais Nin’s “The Iliad, or, The Poem of Force”? She talks about the seemingly inescapable way in which one starts out using violence to get what one wants, and violence becomes the end in itself–much like the one ring. You can try to use it for “good”, but … it always ends up using you for “evil” instead.
One more thing about the questions of Jesus silence. I don’t think Jesus is at all silent on the question of violence. His teachings and his actions seem to me to SHOUT that he thinks it’s better to submit to or run from violence rather than exercise it against those who are perpetrating against him.
Benjamin,
Let me flip that question on you: What does it look like to not support the troops “emotionally/morally/beliefishly”? When you say that I envision you protesting at soldier’s funerals, but since I know you, I can’t imagine you wanting cause extra hardship like that. So, what does your non-support look like on a practical level?
I’m also curious how you responded to James’ comments about Rwanda? Do you think we did the right thing by not responding?
btw- thanks for introducing me to Anais Nin. I’ll have to check those poems out. I like the analogy to Tolkien’s ring, good thoughts.
Craig,
That’s an interesting question. I have never protested at a soldier’s funeral =), and don’t intend to. Perhaps it means that I am trying to choose to believe, and choose to live out the belief, that violence is not the best way to get what I want. So … sometimes I yell at my children. This is verbal violence. I’m wanting to choose to believe that I can be happy and relaxed if I don’t get what I want, and thus there’s no *need* to use verbal violence against my wife and children. I guess I figure if I can learn this thing and accomplish it, then there’s hope for the world.
I tend to think of the whole thing as much more systemic than individual. See Milgram’s Obedience Study and Zimbardo’s Stanford Prison Experiment. Unsupporting, whatever that means, must be directed toward the system, rather than toward the individuals. I wonder what jesus would have said in response to that?
By the way, the piece i was referencing is a 24 page essay entitled “The Iliad, or, The Poem of Force”, and I got the author wrong yesterday–It’s Simone Weil, not Anais Nin. It’s pretty intense reading. I’ll poke around and see if I can locate an electronic copy for you.
This is a tough one for me. I’m not sure what I think.
James’ point in the video about “Clinton’s biggest regret” makes a lot of sense to me, it saddens me that we didn’t do anything (that I’m aware of) until the aftermath of the genocide. Wikipedia says that at least 500,000 were killed and possibly as many as 1 million. It seems to me that the Christ-like thing to have done would have been to take some action, and amidst a civil war that probably would have required the military and violence. I think I would have been OK with that. It’s military action that serves self-interests that seems a bit more clear to me on the other side. The current war in Iraq appears to have been started out of self-interest. It infuriates me that men and women in our military are giving their lives for what appears to be self-preservation. BUT in reality, our involvement in Rwanda probably would have involved some self-interests and the current wars are probably justified in some sense. I think this was James’ point…war is very complex and isn’t something that can just be simplified down. We need to wrestle with these questions and discuss them, which isn’t something I see happening very much in American Christianity right now. If you say war is wrong, then you are being disrespectful/unsupportive of our troops. If you say war is at times OK, then you are being unchristlike and supportive of torture. Where is the middle ground, where is the dialog?
Well for a start, there is a false dichotomy between’doing nothing’ and ‘taking up arms’ in Rwanda or anywhere else. Pacificism is not passivity.
And even if you take the line that sometimes violence can be justified, that sometimes wars are necessary, you are forced to accept that the vast majority of wars today are not justified and not helpful.
Ultimately this all underlines the shaky belief and understanding Christians have of the Kingdom of Heaven. If our faith is in the strength of our own armies rather than the strength of our convictions, that has nothing to do with the Kingdom Jesus spoke of.
Do I support the military? Nope. Those involved should be pitied not honoured.
Thank you for your service!! My boyfriend is a Marine fighting in Afghanistan. This is a very thoughtful and on-point video about how complex the question of war is. The best thing I have ever read about Christianity and war is C.S. Lewis’ “Why I am Not a Pacifist.” Great stuff, I encourage everyone to read it!